kadazan/dusun (sabah) and bunun (taiwan), are we from the same ancestry?

Theory 1: kadazan might have originated from taiwan
i first heard of this from a friend of mine who went to taiwan before. he said that the culture and way this group of people dress is so damn similar to the kadazan. but back then i didnt think so much about it.

then another friend stated something similar to me last night, am not sure how he came across that though.

when i google about this a bit, i found out that lately a number of people have been pointing out that the bunun community in taiwan have alot in common. their assumption is that the bunun might have migrated to borneo and settled down, and some how called them self dusun (before the term kadazan exist). some says the dusun migrated to taiwan, but i dont think so. there's a higher chance that the bunun community might have the navigation and shipping technology back then than the other way round. everyone knows chinamen (or rather lets just say chinese) have remarkable navigation technology and travels well during that era.

also, there's a thread up in sabah forum that's discussing about this topic


i extract part of it here:

BUNUN dancing style and their clothing: Atmost 99% similar to KDM***
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f2ZpZkfaUI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIt5f9SIVJA&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9M2ZHMg82Q&feature=related

***KDM - kadazan dusun murut.

Girl of Alisan: (May be "Alisan" mean "Kadazan")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAuEOVTS2hw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2EhJXx7Tp4

Harvest Song by Bunun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9M2ZHMg82Q&feature=related

another blogger came up with this

i'm a bit confused though, about what he wrote.

and an e-book (i didnt read this. just that u might be interested)


Theory 2: kadazan from indo-china (wait, taiwan IS indo china, isn't it? ah..nvm)
It is not exactly clear from where the Dusunic tribes have come, and when they settled in the north of Borneo. More recent archaeological evidence places the origin of the Dusunic people in the area that was known as Indo-China. Some 10,000 yeas ago, during the last ice-age and when Borneo was still part of a wider landmass, called the Sundaland, those people could have moved by toot to these parts of the world. It is also possible that they have moved trough Laos, Vietnam and the Philippines, and a few thousand years ago arrived by sea. Language affinities, and similarities of customs, dresses and religious belief system make both assumptions possible.
source: http://www.sabahtravelguide.com/mapguide/default.asp?page=monsopiad_kadazan

oh, and i'm pretty sure i read somewhere saying kadazan comes from mongolia. couldnt find the link to that though.

theory 3: i havent figure this out! haha..

p/s: i havent check all the links up there, so if some of them isn't working, my bad, please accept my apology. this is a kinda rush up post, i shall do some more further reading later

why the term chinese, sino and kadazan?

i was sweeping the floor when i suddenly recall part of a conversation i had with a chinese friend. he was asking me why is there a need to differentiate chinese and sino*  in sabah, as if it's entirely 2 different race. isn't it much easier to just categorize everyone as chinese? well, he was not the first to question that, and probably isn't gonna be the last one either. in fact i get similar question from time to time, from non sabahan mostly (chinese and non chinese alike)

*sino: (product of mix marriage between a chinese and local indigenous, generally kadazan/dusun and sometimes murut. rare cases includes other indigenous group as well)

well, in my opinion (correct me if i'm wrong), sabah has the most chinese marrying the local** (ie. kadazan / dusun, murut etc) in malaysia. to make things easier (coz i'm getting confuse now), let me talk from my point of view as a sino kadazan, also from personal experience, and sharing from other kadazan friends as well. before i talk about the reasons, let me demonstrate some common situation that i (and some of my friends, too) have been experiencing all this while.

**local: i'm not saying the chinese are not local (i'm one of them too) and am not trying to be bias here. as far as i am concern, in sabah (or at least my area) chinese are considered local nowadays. i'm only using the word local because it sounds more civilised that indigenous. the word indigenous gives some people the impression that we still live in the cave or on the tree. yeah, and we have internet =) if you get what i mean

* * *   * * *   * * *
SCENE 1:
one fine day, i'm having a conversation with a chinese girl in english/malay. suddenly, i make a remark in mandarin.

me: *ching chong in mandarin*
girl: *look at me with suprised wide eyes. the slanted typical chinese eyes suddenly turn bright and round*  ei?妳会讲华语 meh? (ei? you can speak chinese meh?)
me: 会。 我是华人 mah (can.. i'm chinese mah)
girl: 妳不像华人啊。。。/看不出妳是华人 (you dont look chinese... / i cant tell you are chinese)

this normally happens when i'm having a conversation with non sabahan chinese.


SCENE 2:
mom and I enter some random chinese shop, ie cloth boutique. chinese sales girl/ laubanniang (lady boss) will approach us.

laoban: *smiles* 妳好！ 在找什么？ 我们今天有special offer, 30% off...(hi, what are you looking for? we have special offer today, 30% off)
mum: *smile with an ammused look. she's not confuse, because she's used to it and can guess what the salesgirl is trying to say)
laoban: 还有这里有买1送1 (and here we have buy 1 free 1)
mum: brapa ni? (how much is this? --in malay)
laoban: oh! itu lima puluh ringgit.. saya pikir kamu cina oh tadi (oh! its RM 50.. i thought you are chinese just now.. ) --> typical chinese-sabahan slang when speaking in malay

this happens all the time to my mum when she's shopping for clothes in KK.


SCENE 3:
a pure kadazan and chinese met somewhere..
chinese: are you chinese?
kadazan: no, i'm pure kadazan, but i can speak chinese.
chinese: really? you look chinese la!!

this is not exactly common, but it DOES happen. on rare occasion. but this remark will only be heard from a sabahan chinese


SCENE 4 - a bit similar to scene 1, but here it's a pure kadazan, not sino talking
a pure kadazan and pure chinese met somewhere.. i.e. college
kadazan: *speaks mandarin to chinese*
chinese: are u chinese?
kadazan: no, i'm pure kadazan
chinese: ei? how come you can speak mandarin de??

nowadays, the local send their children to chinese medium school. so, it's common if the local younger generation can communicate in mandarin ( and sometimes other chinese dialect they pick up from friends (i.e hakka)  or tv (i.e cantonese) as well )


SCENE 5 - kinda similar to scene 2
a chinese talks to a typical chinese looking sino with typical 3 syllable chinese name, sometimes with a western name as well (i.e. lily lee mei li)

in case you are lost: lily (western name) lee (surname/family name) mei li (chinese name)

sino: hi, i'm lily lee mei li
chinese: *say some thing in chinese*
sino: huh??
chinese: *repeat what she just said a moment ago*
sino: er.. i dont understand chinese..
chinese: really? i thought you are chinese? how come you got chinese name de? and you look very chinese?

well, just because a sino have fringe/ bangs and rebonded hair, plus dress like chinese, also the chinese name.. that doesn't necessarily mean they can understand chinese.


SCENE 6 - opposite of scene 3
2 chinese friends spoke to chinese looking sino who can speak chinese
chinese 1: *speaks malay to sino*
sino: *reply in malay, somewhat confuse and wondering why is the chinese speaking to her in malay* *sino assume that chinese1 n chinese 2 are those chinese who cant speak chinese*
chinese 1: *speaks mandarin to chinese 2*
sino: *monologue: dont i look chinese? !@#$?*

some chinese cant tell is another person has chinese blood running in them, even though it's so damn obvious

SCENE 7 - do i look really chinese?
well, i never knew i have chinese look from some people's point of view back then.
i blog about it 1.5 year ago. and i dont want to repeat the story here

 * * *   * * *   * * *
well, those are some random scenes that i've come across. and some of the above story were shared by friends (but i simplify them la)

so here are the summary on why we should differentiate chinese, sino and kadazan from each other.

REASON 1: our race doesn't determine our mother tongue. (at home)
take my family for example, we speak english at home. reason being
1. dad barely speaks malay. he speaks hokkien and a bit of mandarin
2. mum is a sino who doesn't really speak chinese (though she can make out the meaning of words from different dialects)
3. it's not like my mum can communicate with dad in kadazan!

REASON 2: what language we speak doesn't determine who we are
just like in scene 4

REASON 3: the way we look or dress doesn't determine who we are
as shown in scene2, 3, 5 and 6

REASON 4: our friends' race doesn't determine who we are
non sabahan generally doesn't know i have chinese blood (mind you its 75%) running in me because i hang out more with the sino (whom from their point of view ain't chinese), the kadazan and other local. my mandarin sucks, kinda feel intimidated being around fluent speaking chinese friends..hehe

REASON 5: our dialect doesn't determine who we are
chinese have various dialect. i have hokkien blood in me but i barely understand hokkien. i dont have cantonese or hakka or mandarin blood running in me but i can at least understand these dialect and give some basic reply.

some of my dusun friends can speak fluent kadazan. (there's a slight difference between this 2, in terms of vocab and spelling, but it's enough to make me confuse)

REASON 6: our daily practices and custom doesn't determine who we are
dont be surprise if you come across a 'pure' kadazan who actually celebrate 清明节 (chinese ghost festival- correct me if i'm wrong). it's a chinese version of all souls' day. well, somewhere up the family tree, someone must be chinese. it's just that the chinese family name carried by the women died when they married the kadazan, hence people thought their children are 'pure' kadazan

REASON 7: our name doesn't determine who we are
as in scene 5. in fact i have a chinese lecturer who clarify with me weather i'm chinese or not, just because i have a middle name and dont carry a chinese name. but at least she noticed my surname

REASON 8: people are just so confuse of our identity (esp sino)
well, since sino are mix blood, we tend to have a fusion and mixture of culture and value, and of cause our look, fashion etc. we are not typical chinese nor typical kadazan/ dusun etc.. when we tell others we are sino, and define to them the term 'sino', they tend to stop questioning about why are we so 'mix' and 'different' and why are we not typical.

sino is somewhat similar to peninsula malaysia's nyonya baba (chinese + malay), but i think sino is more complicated as the culture and value practice differs from one family to another, ie mother tongue.

as for scene 3 where a kadazan might look like chinese, there's some theory explaining that. it's in the next post: kadazan/dusun (sabah) and bunun (taiwan), are we from the same ancestry?

hokkien - the ancient language?

i know it's been ages since i last post..

been back for 1 month now.. but for some unknown reason, i'm not my usual self.

i'm not blogging, i'm not downloading, i'm not reading, i watch less.. in fact i dont do what i used to enjoy doing anymore.. anyone care to tell me why am i like this?

anyway, i wanted to share something i stumble upon while reading one of the blogs i've been following for quite some time. all credit goes to daphne ling and whoever started this email. so here goes :

"Ancient Imperial Language of China - 2,000 Years Ago.

If you're a HOKKIEN Take Note !!

Ancient Imperial Language of China – 2,000 Years Ago

How Did it Sound Like? (Mind you, it's no way similar to Mandarin)

Has this Ancient Language Survived?

Who Speaks it Today?

You'll be Surprised. You have heard it. You, your parents, or grandparents may still be speaking this ancient, archaic language!

Yes, it's HOKKIEN (Fujian/Minnan Hua)

Hokkien is:

1. The surviving language of the Tang Dynasty (618-907AD), China 's Golden Age of Culture.

Note: The Hokkien we hear today may have "evolved" from its original form 2,000 years ago, but it still retains the main elements of the Tang Dynasty Language.

2. Hokkiens are the surviving descendants of the Tang Dynasty -- When the Tang Dynasty collapsed, the people of the Tang Dynasty fled South and sought refuge in the Hokkien ( Fujian ) province. Hence, Hokkien called themselves Tng-lang (Tang Ren or People of the Tang Dynasty) instead of Hua Lang (Hua Ren).

3. Hokkien has 8 tones instead of Mandarin's 4. Linguists claim that ancient languages tend to have more complex tones.

4. Hokkien retains the ancient Chinese pronunciation of "K-sounding" endings (for in stance, Hak Seng (student), Tua Ok (university), Thak Chek (read a book/study) -- the "k" sounding ending is not found in Mandarin.

5. The collection of the famous "Three Hundred Tang Dynasty Poems" sound better when recited in Hokkien/Teochew if compared to Mandarin.

6. Consider this for a moment: Today, the Hokkien Nam Yim Ochestral performance still has its roots in ancient Tang dynasty music. Here's the proof: The formation of today Nam Yim ensemble is typically seen in ancient Tang dynasty paintings of musicians.

More Astonishingly:

Although not genetically-related, Hokkiens, Koreans and Japanese share many similar words (which are different from Mandarin).

That's because Hokkien was the official language of the powerful Tang Dynasty whose influence and language spread to Japan and Korea (just like Latin – where many words were borrowed by the English, French, Italian, etc). Here are just a few words in Hokkien, Korean and Japanese for your comparison (Daphne's Note: If something is missing, it's the Japanese word):

*Daphne's Note: Words are presented in this order of :-

Hokkien

Korean

Japanese

H: Sin Boon (news)

K: Sin Mun

J: Shinbun - newspaper

H: Cheng Hu (government)

K: Chong Bu

J:

Pang (room)

Pang

Chhia (car/vehicle)

Ch'a

Mui/M'ng (door)

Mun

P'hio (ticket)

P'yo

Eng Wan (eternal)

Yong Won

Chaek (book)

Ch'ae

Ki (flag)

Ki

Ki

Kang river)

Gang/kang

Poh Hiam (insurance)

Poh Ham

Sio Sim (caution)

Cho sim

Mo Kui (demon)

Ma gui

Cham (attend/join/mix)

Ch'am sok

Kantan (simple)

Gan Dan

Sin Sei Kai (new world)

Shin Sae Gae

Kok Ka (nation)

Kuk Kka

Hya (elder brother)

Hyaeng

Choon Pi (prepare)

Jun Bi

Si Kan (time)

Si Kan

Kam tong (emotion, feeling)

Kam Jong

Kanjoo

Kamsia (gratitude, thanks)

Kam Sa

Kansha

Keat Hoon (marriage)

Kyol Hon

Kekkon

Oon Tong (exercise)

Un Dong

Undoo

Tua Ok (university)

Tae Hak

Daigaku

Aun Chuan (safety)

An Jon

An Zen

Mua Chiok(satisfaction)

Man Jok

Manzoku

Ai Lang (lover)

Ae In

Aijin

Seng Kong (success)

Song Kong

Seikoo

Chhiu Sat (suicide)

Cha sal

Jisatsu

Pu Do (grapes)

P'o d'o

Budoo

Chin Por (progress)

Chin bo

Shinpo

To all 49 Million Hokkien Speakers:

Be Proud of Your Ancient Hokkien Heritage & Language! Speak it Loud and Clear. Teach Your Future Generation this Imperial Language, Less it Fades Away. Be Proud Children of the Tang Emperors.

To all Mandarin-speaking friends out there -- do not look down on your other Chinese friends who do not speak Mandarin – whom you guys fondly refer to as "Bananas". In fact, they are speaking a language which is much more ancient & linguistically complicated than Mandarin.

Keep in mind that Mandarin is just:

1. A Northern Chinese dialect (heavily influenced by non Han Chinese) that was elevated to the status of National Language by Sun Yat Sen for the sake of China’s national unity.

2. Mandarin was never spoken by your proud, imperial Tang Dynasty ancestors. It was probably spoken by the Northern (Non-Han) Jurchen, Mongols and Manchu minority. Start speaking the language of your ancestors today." 

so, what  do you guys think of that? just for the record, i can hardly understand hokkien. anyone care to teach me some? so much so for being chinese (with hokkien blood), i suck at chinese (including mandarin, but still acceptable),  there's so many room left for improvement .. but i need help..